#1
Draku
It's become pretty obvious lately that spell costs are becoming far too low for how quickly EX comes in. While we wanted to save eliminating knockback for whenever Classes are introduced, it may be a good time to cut it down as well, perhaps to 20%. This would go into effect alongside generally raised spell costs, so as to lessen their potential upsetting effect in generating even more EX to go around and making them have a point.

Please submit any balancing suggestions you may have, I know that people want Outta Sight to be far more expensive and I'd love ideas for formulas for that. The base cost could certainly go up. I think Frame That Sh*t could easily go up to 2000. Give a Sh*t is EXTREMELY strong right now and is a huge source of EX income and could serve to have its cost increased dramatically, perhaps to 600 or 700. I believe almost all Salty Spells could go with a cost increase short of maybe Whoops. Autocorrect could serve to become a 300 EX spell itself. Autoplay's effect is incredibly profound and I don't think its own price is right either though it's close, perhaps just nudging it to 1000 would do the trick.

I have talked before about the dangers of making EX costs go up forever and thus discouraging new members from using spells, but the way EX flows around so easily these days makes it simple for anyone even at lv1 to rocket up the level chain at a moment's notice. Plus, I don't intend to have all Spell prices be raised either.
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#2
B-man
These are good balancing ideas. Give a Sh*t is way too powerful to be as cheap as it is.
#3
B-man
I also have been feeling like there could be more things to spend EX on, but I'm not sure what. If prices were set reasonably high a consumables item shop could be a good way to give players with high EX something to spend it on. I'd spend top dollar on a Magic Kit.
#4
God
i knew you'd be back
"If Your Plate Doesn't Have Any Beef On It, Send It Back To The Hecking Cafeteria!!!" - OracularRELOADED
#5
Draku
i think we have a shop plugin and simply haven't done the overhauls necessary yet

i'd love for consumables to stop being drops (or at least only drop when you don't have ANY of a consumable instead of capping at 3) and instead something you buy while cosmetics continue to be what you randomly receive
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#6
B-man
(May 19, 2017 at 3:16 AM)OracularREBORN Wrote: i knew you'd be back

mw is a hell of a drug
#7
Fun With Despair
Balance wizard time!

...is what I would say if a large amount of the ideas being presented weren't already really solid. The biggest issue with EX right now is genuinely not knockback, but EX and Rally. As we've (briefly) touched on in the past, Rally is kind of a mess of a mechanic that hasn't really ever hit a good balance at all period. Current Rally is way too easy to get, and way too easy to drag out until you're an incredibly high level. This is from what I see, where a lot of EX comes from, not knockback, which hardly does fuck all beyond give like three levels.

The real culprit, is as stated, Give A Sh*t and Good Sh*t in general. Getting Good Sh*ts is, contrary to what ol' Spritey says, incredibly easy, and combined with high rally, not even factoring IN Give A Sh*t, the numbers are fucking absurd, not even taking into account the Great and Perfect tiers, which can wind up giving you a literal entire fucking level at Perfect with one click with high Rally.

Spell costs could help give something to use it on, but regarding the fuckhuge gains of EX, here's my verdict

-Don 't bother with knockback, it's a very very minor contribution to huge EX pools
-NERF RALLY JESUS CHRIST
-Nerf Good Sh*ts across the board

Give A Sh*t is absurd in the potential, but you forget that it's literally only that good because of how easy it is to rack up good shits, and how easy it is to max out the rally too. Without neutering the gain per click of a Good Sh*t, which should honestly be the fucking case probably but back on topic, a good fix would be to probably raise Great and Perfect tiers to 10 clicks and 15/20 clicks respectively. Perfect Sh*t should be reserved for a Perfect Post, and Great Sh*t should be reserved for a Great Post, but that's not the case. Great Posts get Perfect Sh*t all the time, and random stupid shit like me dumping a youtube link for the podcast gets a Great Sh*t.

Gutting those two would kill EX Inflation more than killing knockback would.

Also please gut rally. The gains are probably fine but it decays stupid slow.
#8
God
(May 19, 2017 at 4:14 AM)Fun With Despair Wrote: Balance wizard time!

...is what I would say if a large amount of the ideas being presented weren't already really solid. The biggest issue with EX right now is genuinely not knockback, but EX and Rally. As we've (briefly) touched on in the past, Rally is kind of a mess of a mechanic that hasn't really ever hit a good balance at all period. Current Rally is way too easy to get, and way too easy to drag out until you're an incredibly high level. This is from what I see, where a lot of EX comes from, not knockback, which hardly does fuck all beyond give like three levels.

The real culprit, is as stated, Give A Sh*t and Good Sh*t in general. Getting Good Sh*ts is, contrary to what ol' Spritey says, incredibly easy, and combined with high rally, not even factoring IN Give A Sh*t, the numbers are fucking absurd, not even taking into account the Great and Perfect tiers, which can wind up giving you a literal entire fucking level at Perfect with one click with high Rally.

Spell costs could help give something to use it on, but regarding the fuckhuge gains of EX, here's my verdict

-Don 't bother with knockback, it's a very very minor contribution to huge EX pools
-NERF RALLY JESUS CHRIST
-Nerf Good Sh*ts across the board

Give A Sh*t is absurd in the potential, but you forget that it's literally only that good because of how easy it is to rack up good shits, and how easy it is to max out the rally too. Without neutering the gain per click of a Good Sh*t, which should honestly be the fucking case probably but back on topic, a good fix would be to probably raise Great and Perfect tiers to 10 clicks and 15/20 clicks respectively. Perfect Sh*t should be reserved for a Perfect Post, and Great Sh*t should be reserved for a Great Post, but that's not the case. Great Posts get Perfect Sh*t all the time, and random stupid shit like me dumping a youtube link for the podcast gets a Great Sh*t.

Gutting those two would kill EX Inflation more than killing knockback would.

Also please gut rally. The gains are probably fine but it decays stupid slow.

i endorese this
#9
God
there was a time when Rally worked btw (i believe it was the second edition of Rally) but fsr it was tinkered with. it hasn't worked since at all since the levels and pricing changed dramatically.
"If Your Plate Doesn't Have Any Beef On It, Send It Back To The Hecking Cafeteria!!!" - OracularRELOADED
#10
Draku
imo rally gains just a bit too fast at low levels and gains way too slow at high ones.

rally consumption should go up drastically. it should be a short-term booster mechanic not a fucking constant supportive one.

imo great/perfect sh*t counts are just about right for the current userbase counts, look at most posts that have perfect sh*ts on them and they cap out at around ~14 clicks. great sh*t could maybe be bumped to 7 as a threshold? i dunno i really like the current way and how rewarding it is to make a good post. the problem is as you said rally makes that gain WAY overboard what it's meant to be
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#11
God
does rally still have a soft cap?
"If Your Plate Doesn't Have Any Beef On It, Send It Back To The Hecking Cafeteria!!!" - OracularRELOADED
#12
Draku
Way Rally works right now is sub lv50 it uses one formula and over lv50 it uses another, maxing out at 5x (only Rally Up can bypass the 5x cap)

I would like for it to use a formula that scales very slightly by level rather than the current bullshit.
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#13
God
yeah that doesn't sound right at all. what happened to the formula that reduced RG/increased RD for every level you had?
"If Your Plate Doesn't Have Any Beef On It, Send It Back To The Hecking Cafeteria!!!" - OracularRELOADED
#14
Fun With Despair
(May 19, 2017 at 4:22 AM)OracularREBORN Wrote: there was a time when Rally worked btw (i believe it was the second edition of Rally) but fsr it was tinkered with. it hasn't worked since at all since the levels and pricing changed dramatically.
rally worked until agastya and I murdered it

(May 19, 2017 at 4:22 AM)Draku Wrote: imo rally gains just a bit too fast at low levels and gains way too slow at high ones.

rally consumption should go up drastically. it should be a short-term booster mechanic not a fucking constant supportive one.

imo great/perfect sh*t counts are just about right for the current userbase counts, look at most posts that have perfect sh*ts on them and they cap out at around ~14 clicks. great sh*t could maybe be bumped to 7 as a threshold? i dunno i really like the current way and how rewarding it is to make a good post. the problem is as you said rally makes that gain WAY overboard what it's meant to be

Yeah, and that division of rally gain pre and post 50 is mad gay, but even barring that, there's a certain level of extreme bullshit in decay as you said.

I almost want to go back to time based now that people are generally posting/reading every day, but I'm not sure if that would make people ass mad or not. It probably would, but there's no way to balance current rally's decay method without it being either bullshit strong like it is now or incredibly silly levels of short that rewards a 1000EX spellcast with like 50EX gained.

Time-based had a level of strategy that paid off during active threads with salt and beef, racking it up with your own spells and then profiting from the activity. I like the idea of that mechanic now that's there's more activity.

As for great/perfect sh*t, I'll agree I guess, but great probably should go up to 7. For giving literally double what good does, it's way too easy to hit for the average decent post.

The other option is to change what Great and Perfect offer on a click, but that would mess with the clean division of 100 that it has going on now, although with Rally constantly giving weird numbers I'm not sure that matters much
#15
God
nah it was fucked before you did the exploit. i don't think you guys were even on the forum yet when Rally was working properly.
"If Your Plate Doesn't Have Any Beef On It, Send It Back To The Hecking Cafeteria!!!" - OracularRELOADED
#16
Draku
Time based Rally was really dumb and I say that as someone who abused it for that property more than once. I really like the current way it decays but it needs to be consumed at double or triple the current rate.
#17
Draku
if the Rally formula that you liked can be dug up that would be really helpful btw. I hate the current one a lot.
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#18
Fun With Despair
The actual issue with Old-New Rally (back before current decay rate but still gain based) was exactly that. No one felt Rally was worth it as a mechanic because it decayed so fast that the gains wouldn't even get you CLOSE to back where you were when you cast the spell, defeating the purpose.

It's probably possible to balance the current decay system I suppose, but hitting something that won't make it useless or OP honestly seems like a giant pain in the dick. Literally no one will be happy either way, considering that at around double/triple decay rate as now people already thought it sucked balls.
#19
Aidan
rally gain does take level into account but level has an extremely low impact until you're like level 50
last time we were fucking with it we agreed that low rally gain is shit so rn it's high so people actually use the mechanic
it would be nice to find a middle ground though
#20
Draku
yeah i want there to be high rally gain which is why i think the current formula blows.

ideal imo is you gain a good amt of rally off of casts that lowers slightly the higher level you are rather than some fuckhuge random drop at 50 that throws everything off, but it decays super fast off of gains.
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