This post was last modified: Dec 12, 2020 at 8:02 AM by n̷̨̘͖͗̊͜ò̴̟̜̲̲̞͈͚̖̲̽̈́́͐͛́̏̋̈́̑͐̈́.

For the readers discretion; this situation has been handled. You're reading the before, where I am bringing to light my feelings on the subject matter. While I still may feel the same regarding some issues, I was able to have a convo with the man himself and move past my and his differences and come to a mutual understanding. That is how it should always be I am not removing the post. I want others to see this and hopefully it will inspire a new way of MWers settling their disputes with each other.


-----------
White Knight Chronicles 2: With Money's Divine Protection
---------------------

WARNING: THE FOLLOWING POST DOES MENTION/REFERENCE PREVIOUS CONVERSATIONS I'VE HAD ABOUT TRANS ISSUES/CHARACTERS/SITUATIONS. LIKE
SOME OTHERS HERE[INCLUDING MEMBERS OF THAT COMMUNITY] WE HAVE ALL BEEN UNINFORMED/UNAWARE/OR BIASED TO CERTAIN ISSUES
PERTAINING TO MEMBERS. WHILE THESE ARE FROM A WHILE BACK I ACKNOWLEDGE I SAID THEM. I ONLY ASK YOU
ACKNOWLEDGE THE GROWTH AS WELL.

Hey all. Been a while.

Now I know immediately what people are going to say. "Jeez Zelma, can't you just let this die? This happened x amount of
days/weeks/months ago"
And the answer is "no". I cannot.
During that heated debate I was made out to be multiple things I was not. Crazy, Dilusional, over-dramatic & stupid.
Now I was called stupid by someone who I thought of as an internet friend.
Needless to say, I am not his friend anymore and do you want to know the reason why?

Simping.

No really. That's the reason.


For us to really understand this issue we have to have a big ass fucking lore dump of me and this persons history.

Lets get right into it dudes. Money has been a member of MW lore for a while believe it or not. From a general
perspective, she contributes..um..noteworthy conversation to the community I guess. Alright, let me be honest if it wasn't
for #controversial I wouldn't even know Money was still a member here. She is infamous for mainly posting about political
topics she finds on Twitter and then peacing out for the rest of the day until she find another. If you're lucky she might
stick around and discuss her viewpoints on the subject. Rn as of December 2020 it is split about 50/50.

Me and Money have history together. First we have our actual history which is crazy to look at dudes. If you look back on MFGG
archive you are actually able to see real footage of Money being excited that I got unbanned. I know. I know. I didn't believe
it either but it exists. The internet is FUCKING crazy but for our ACTUAL history together I'm afraid to say it's nothing
even remotely as postive.

Off the top of my head; my first REAL interaction with Money was during a very heated discussion and one all to familiar with
fans of the series: "Is Naoto from Persona 4 transsexual?".

Now, look, I'm black. I get wanting representation in the media you consume.
I talk to people on a regular basis who believe characters like Brock, Mugen and Bobobo are black and in my personal headcanon fuck it
they might as well be but when we're discussing the actual facts, I gotta face the music, at best these are characters influenced
by black culture, but they are not black. Naoto from Persona 4, is not transsexual. I WOULD'VE been a cool plot-point and very
progressive to cover[especially back in like what 2008 or 2009 when the original game dropped?] but that's not the case.

I know. I know. "Zelma, you're being insensitive again. You don't understand queer issues as a cis male. Here, let me make
this about race so that you DO GET IT dumbass". I appreciate the thought. I'm good though. I get it, I promise. To touch on it
REAL QUICK: It makes perfect sense why someone would be offended by it, Naoto realized she didn't have to be a man to
excel in her profession or to get the respect she needed. That is a solution that worked for her and if you see that as
a trans person you're going to take offense, it's fucked up because it can be read as the game developers saying "Yeah. Uh
that trans shit? Fuck that" and that, especially to a trans teenager who is playing this IS fucked up. I don't think that's
what it is though, really and truly. Naoto felt unappreciated and like she didn't belong in the japanese police work place.
Women in Japan already have a real tough time in the industry, it's gotten better I imagine, but back in 2009 even 2010? It
was probably rough. You defeat her boss and she proclaims with relief that "She is a woman" with no hesistation in her mind.
That worked for her, it wasn't the solution for others and that should be okay. Atlus has a history of bullshit like this
with the most evident one being ERICA from Catherine but I think Naoto is except.

That conversation went to fucking shit. Immediately and it is easy to understand why looking back[goddamn that was only a year
ago bros. holy shit.] however my main thing was arguing with people who haven't played the game to understand the context.
I'm not tone deaf, I usually can see when something is blantantly offensive but regardless, read the spoilers to get my full
new view on it. It hasn't changed much but I am more understanding. ANYWAY that's my FIRST interaction with Money.

Since then seemingly every other conversation I have with Money seems to be about something that offended Money really badly, to which
I would say my piece, she would say hers and then a back and forth before someone[Mainly Stir] stepped in or some just left.

Would you like to know what our second conversation was ever? I'll give you a second

If you guessed "Are traps gay?" then you would be correct! What a great segway from the Naoto topic right?
Jesus christ.
Click the spoiler for a review of how that conversatio went

Alright so boom. Stir posts the famous Contrapoints vid "Are traps gay" to which I respond with
"oh sick i liked her incel video a little on the longer side but still fun let's check this o-

>44min

yo what of course traps are gay fuck this"

And Money, seemingly out of nowhere, responds back with:
"Zelma it's worth watching
You dont have to watch it all in one chunk but like
tbh you're the type of person who'd benefit the most from it"

Now I blew up in this convo because I felt like I was being attacked and labeled as some person who didn't understand
or had no semblenance of understanding towards trans issues. I understand now Money was trying to inform me about something
but the other main point of issue here is that it's a 40min long video. If you can't personally type out what they were
saying or what point they were trying to make, then why would I watch it? You watched it and you can't even tell me what
it's about. I ended up listening to it at work and while some points were kind of "okay. i don't know about that" overall
I agreed and liked it. The conversation is informative and turns into "Which princess is hotter" to which
everyone participates.
Unfortunately bros..this will be the only convo with a happy ending between the three of us.
I bring up this convo because it shows a consistent theme that will follow from here on. Me not understanding what the fuck
Money is talking about, Money not understanding how to explain what she's talking about, Stir chiming in[albeit a bit more
agressively from here on out]

THIS particular conversation is interesting because it marks the first interaction I had with both Stir and Money at the same
time. Now personally I think this conversation also highlights Stir's irractic behavior, he'll deny it, but his internet words
were coming off more strongly than Money's. I think it's because the futa thing but idk

So now we're two conversations in with this user who I barely interact with outside of controversial/political issues. The
which princess would you fuck thing is a step in the right direction but that would be ruined by the next conversation we had.

I don't even feel like recaping this but basically you know what the next thing we talked about was dudes? Lmao.
The Vic Mignoia situation at Funimation. Like are you fucking shitting me.
Off a quick skim I came off a little strong about the situation. It was developing, at the end of it, Vic turned out
to be innocent but I guess the end result doesn't matter in this case.

NOW FINALLY; here is our NEXT and really last conversation with Money before yesterdays event. Wanna guess what it was about?
Honestly: go grab a pop-tart or something and think about it. I'll give you hint! It is trans-related! There is not clear right
or wrong answer! Go ahead guess, we'll be right back



Hey kids, we're back! If you guessed

Should Trans people present before they sleep with someone they are hooking up with

You are correct! Haha. Fuck man.
Now, that conversation also went to fucking shit. Why you ask? Because we began arguing semantics. Words. No one
was understanding where the other was coming from. It was a literal argument of what meant what and who was talking about
what despite it being painfully obvious if you remove yourself from the position your in. Goes for both sides. Nobody
had to have some life changing revelation but it didn't have to end like that.
Here are some blurbs so you can get an idea, btw, if you're afraid of me being biased feel free to search these in the discord


Zelma -
If you realize and transition or are in the process of transitioning then
I understand going by your true identity/gender but to just say "Even though I had a penis before, I wasn't a man"
is dishonest imo.
Money -
Having a penis doesn't make you a man. Being assigned male at birth doesn't make you a man.
And it doesn't make your "past self" a man
Zelma -
I agree having a penis doesn't make you a man but if you have a penis you are biologically male. If you transition/realize you're a woman later on that's different
but to just deny your past altogether is crazy.
Money -
Thinking that people saying that they were never a man are being "dishonest" is part of the problem
Zelma -
If you're at a bar or something right; and youre hitting it off with someone well let's say a guy and you're a newly transition woman(passing and everything)...
do you just never have the conversation that you were previously a man?
(This is never addressed by Money btw.)
Zelma - Yeah the convo is dead now.
Agree to disagree. If anyone got offended I apologize and if you want to argue more hit the DMs.
Money -
ofc someone can just decide to "end the conversation" and to "agree to disagree"
when they aren't actually impacted by the topic.
but whatever.
Zelma -
We can keep going if you want but I've clearly offended/hurt your(and others too probably)
feelings which I never really even wanted to do.
We already don't get along as it is.

(Money never DM'd me. Which honestly would've been the perfect to squash this all but here we are. It's important to note
that Stir is also in the mix here on Money's side, but this isn't the issue, he is disregarding what I am saying and
making it seem like I am uninterested in emphasizing or can't understand Money's struggle because I am not Trans which is
extremely problematic. He also argues with others on her behalf but that's a different situation)

We are three or four FULL ASS DISCOURSE conversations in with no resolve what so ever. Everyone leaves upset for one reason or
another and to me, the only common demoniatory is Money. So using my new found knowledge during a shit storm in #controversial
I took it upon myself to just jab at Money passively and agressively. This is the only time that this has occured.
I'm not gonna recap the whole thing it's clear I was on some fuck shit, I might come back and see what exactly when down but
you can search Money's post on discord
"I honestly can't remember any times where i was actively dickish to Zelma"
you'll be able to find it.

Now either some time after that there's the whole issue with another member that Stir has a problem with. That happened and
resulted in someone leaving temporarily.
To which I chimed in
Zelma -
"i wish stir would keep that same energy with money when she is blatantly misinformed"
Now I didn't need to say this but I wanted to. I was wrong and I owned up to it.
The resulting shit show that followed is a back and forth between me and Stir mostly conprising of "Money did nothing wrong
so I have no reason to go off on her ever." to which I would respond with some variant of "that's bullshit". Now I was
sending passive shots before this as well but this is the main result from that incident.

So now this brings us to present day finally. We are now 4 or 5 incidents in. No real resolve. I don't interact with Money
outside of heavy political issues and never see her post about shit that isn't very sensitive/political stuff.

Our next and final conversation starts off innocently enough. With this post:




To which....we actually get a suprise visit from Money!! Wonder what she has to say about Smash charac-





?????????




Now let's take this to the people. Given the context of our entire conversation history do you think that'd be a good idea
to say to me of all people? I've made it clear I do not know Money like that at all. She is barely a member here outside of
#controversial. I am usually cool with people jabbing or making fun because I feel like I at least know them a little, I have
mostly negative interactions with Money so do you know what this turned into?

I'm going to spare you the time and just tell you;

An argument about anime boobs.
Basically the concensus was Pyra's & Mythra's outfit is problematic and to a degree, I agree. If you're new to anime/JRPGs
then their outfits can be maybe a little jarring to a brand-new fan of either of these. Now I don't know about Money but
Stir is a fan of Mecha anime, home to shit like this











Don't you think it's a little fucking disingenious to argue with me about a characters design being disgusting and offensive
when a whole genre, basically the only genre of anime he enjoys regularly capitializes on horny teenagers and otaku men?
By comparison does this shit really look that bad?


I hate to bring this up again but Stir enjoys certain hentai artist that even I, Zelma, the meme'd porn poster don't even fuck with.
99% of that is due to the inclusion of dicks but the other 1 is that it is legit grotisque and ugly looking. Like you'll
have a perfectly good looking anime girl and all the sudden her pelvic region is all sweaty and there's a juce big veiny cock there.
If that kind of thing interets you DM Stir, he'll link you.

It just reeks of dishonesty to me. Now if it was just simply people disagreeing about shit then we'd be all good but of course
it doesn't end there. That would be way too simple.

Now the big thing here is context. Money's whole thing was "It makes no sense. There's no context." with regards to Mythra and Pyra's outfit
mind you, she is saying all this without having ever played the game. Specifically why they're like that is the artist choice
but they look the way they do because they're blades. Viewing their constumes and the emblem on their chest you can tell there is
something different about them. I could get into the lore dump but honestly I just beat Xenoblade 1 and am resuming 2 on Chapter 4
it'd take some digging and I don't feel like it. Basically, play the game.

Anyway I post a picture of Pyra in a swimsuit asking her if this makes her mad and she says no because there's context(again. wtf).
Now this is where STIR drops some real bangers:
@Zelma go away
You're being stupid

StirghettiYesterday at 10:57 AM
You're being difficult on purpose

StirghettiYesterday at 10:57 AM
Ignoring what we're saying

StirghettiYesterday at 11:03 AM
Naw you're being an ass to money [ This one is particularly epic because idk why but when he types to me sometimes
he likes to use words like "naw" or "aight" as if i'm his long lost black brother from another mother.]

This goes on and the conversation once again ends, except this time I'm like wtf? Fuck this. I'm not going to allow Stir to
put on this show like he's actually defending Money from someone evil so I take this shit to the forbidden
#Controversial channel dudes opening up with this post.

ZelmaYesterday at 11:15 AM
I've come to Money's home to argue about anime. Step in the ring if you're willing nerds @Money @Stirghetti

Me and MONEY go back and forth a little before we, well..I, agree to disagree and end with this
"Agree to disagree.
Now in DMs privately or something can you
PLEASE tell Stir I'm not your Minus World bully like he likes to think I am?
I've asked u to be my friend multiple times and u ghost me like a tinder match"

To which there was no response. She instead chose to keep harping on characters i brought up passingly to see if she
had a problem with. [For reference: no problem with morgan but ignored Cammy.]

Now STIR is here gang. here's what he has to say in response to me saying Pyra/Mythra have a reason to look like they do.

Stir - "She doesn't and it's such an overt sexual design no excuse could even exist" [Mecha anime fan who hasn't played Xenoblade 2]

This is also another banger

StirghettiYesterday at 11:34 AM
Because it's uncomfortable to enjoy something and be picked into a pigeon hole of a coomer to enjoy it. - Person who has not even played the game and enjoys mecha where
the girls regularly have skimpy designs and mech suits that enphasis areas of their body is now suddenly afraid of being labeled a coomer

So here is the main draw

StirghettiYesterday at 11:38 AM
Most of my energy is you shitting on money again

Now given my history with Money, I'll be the first to say I look at them a bit side-eyed when they post but my interactions
with Money that day would be no different than if Mfan or someone wanted to argue about horny anime designs.

But I absolutely was not shitting on her.

Here is me trying to get her to tell Stir to back-off
ZelmaYesterday at 11:39 AM
Yo. Look at this shit @Money . Have I shit on you once this whole convo? Tell your white-knight to back the fuck off.

She ignores this btw.

Here's another one to which she responds

ZelmaYesterday at 11:40 AM
Money if you don't tell Stir you're not being harassed by me rn I'm legit blocking both of you.
Which isn't a huge loss for either of you but this is bullshit.

MoneyYesterday at 11:40 AM
Zelma you've been a bit dickish to me but i really don't wanna raise more shit by challenging you
MoneyYesterday at 11:40 AM
I don't get why you think there's some sorta conspiracy against you

ZelmaYesterday at 11:41 AM
You are gaslighting. Stir has been saying I'm bullying you this whole convo and you've done nothing to stop it

StirghettiYesterday at 11:41 AM
You only ever act this way with money

Anyway here is actual bystander ancedotes of if I was bullying Money or not:
Ok from a bystander pov, it's obvious zelma has past beef with money but nothing about today's tiddy convo was over any line
--
anyway stir if money doesn't care then you should stop acting like a holy paladin
---
it seems like you unironically think money is too weak to defend herself or take any kind of argument so you feel
the need to jump in and fight anyone who is fighting with her
---
im gonna say that typically i see zelma being a dick about money specifically but this time i didn't
-------

So anyway here's Stir still acussing me of treating Money like shit

StirghettiYesterday at 11:49 AM
The fact this is occurring is you treating money worse than you treat others

Epic Money acting like she doesn't have a live defender right now
MoneyYesterday at 11:55 AM
Zelma please stop assuming there's a shadowy cabal of people whose only goal in life is to protect my poor feelings and to oppose you

Stir accusing Staff of not liking MONEY
StirghettiYesterday at 11:57 AM
Because you act out
StirghettiYesterday at 11:57 AM
And @Site Staff do shit all about it, hell some of them are just as biased as you privately

StirghettiYesterday at 12:02 PM
I'm not butt hurt
You guys have not dealt with this like year long problem

The real highlight of this whole thing

MoneyYesterday at 12:21 PM
I didn't want this to turn into a whole "Money Defense Force vs Zelma"
thing like i know it has many times in the past
but oh well
- she says while she ignored me telling Stir to stop amplifying shit.

MoneyYesterday at 12:22 PM
I know i can't control stir. I know i can't control you
ZelmaYesterday at 12:22 PM
You could've made an effort.

MoneyYesterday at 12:22 PM
It's not my job to?


So that's my entire history with MONEY and conversly Stir.
Now the real reason I made this thread is to figure out why he is so defensive about Money:? Why the hell can't he let her
argue or figure shit out herself? Ironically enough, he thinks there's some mafia out there trying to discredit Money every
opportunity and there isn't. Which begs the question: What does Stir want from Money? What does he want from the community in
regards to Money.

He called me stupid, insisted I was someone I wasn't over her. So clearly there has to be some reason why.
Do you guys think he wants to engage in an online relationship with her? That is what I thought initially but I'm just not sure anymore.

Regardless, I'm sure posting this will make everyone not like me and it's all good, but I really wanted to paint the picture of what really has been
going on here.
It is really crazy dudes. I'd normally end this by saying "I'M LEAVING MINUS WORLD" but to be real when has that ever happened?
I'll be right in this thread.

BUT NOW I want to hear from you guys. Who is the bully? Who is the victim? Is there a victim? Please rate comment subscribe.

I've updated the thread to be a poll.
I understand a lot of people might not be comfortable sharing their thoughts on this so let's do it like this,
If enough people say yes I would like the MODS to permanently ban me!

This shit is way too long dude
I scrolled through quick and I thought you were posting hot anime babes as a reward for making it to the end but no there's MORE BULLSHIT afterwards fuck I haven't even read this much about Chris chan and that's a funny internet thing
I'm gonna quote you on this one

no man. stop it. start a youtube and do all this; you know im not goingto read this. i cant read

i get annoyed when i agree with stir on something cause i know for a fact hes gonna say smth that embarasses me and makes the person im talking to even more angry

Also I do think the entire industry has this problem not just pyra and whoever’s designs

Also I do think the entire industry has this problem not just pyra and whoever’s designs

Very understandable. You've also never been really an anime fan for the most part so I see why you, and someone similar to you could have an issue with those designs.

Thank you for laying this all out zelma. Most of the cowards on minus world would never try to settle beef this way, some people are forever mad at me and I have no idea why

Thank you for laying this all out zelma. Most of the cowards on minus world would never try to settle beef this way, some people are forever mad at me and I have no idea why

Thank you, man. Means a lot.
If nothing else, I hope others will take the direct approach other than letting things build up over time.

This post was last modified: Dec 12, 2020 at 1:42 AM by Robert Downey Jr.

What the hell is going on? Listen kids, I don't know who's fighting who; but as long as you're having fun, kick each other's ass.

@Power Flotzo I bet you didn't even read it you heel. Explain your vote or I'm lynching you

Thank you for laying this all out zelma. Most of the cowards on minus world would never try to settle beef this way, some people are forever mad at me and I have no idea why

I'm forever mad at the placement of your avatar items

@Power Flotzo watch out bro... going afk agakn means youll die, send in your actions

I scrolled through quick and I thought you were posting hot anime babes as a reward for making it to the end but no there's MORE BULLSHIT afterwards fuck I haven't even read this much about Chris chan and that's a funny internet thing

titty good, i agree with zelma. money, i recommend using a stick with a flared bottom before you put it up your butt next time. you'll be able to get it out easier that way

Thank you for laying this all out zelma. Most of the cowards on minus world would never try to settle beef this way, some people are forever mad at me and I have no idea why

I'm forever mad at the placement of your avatar items

I dunno if I put them there like that or if they're from an older avatar and I didn't re-arrange them. Sorry about that! I don't know how to fix them

This post was last modified: Dec 12, 2020 at 7:38 AM by n̷̨̘͖͗̊͜ò̴̟̜̲̲̞͈͚̖̲̽̈́́͐͛́̏̋̈́̑͐̈́.

I'm happy to inform everyone that me and @Stirghetti were able to solve our differences. No mod involvment, no unnecessary bullshit. Just two dudes talking about stuff and getting it resolved. I apologize for insinuating Stir wanted to have sex with or be intimate with Money and conversely he apologized for calling me out of my name. Let this be a lesson to everyone that things can be worked out if you are willing to make it happen.

Now, there is two interesting after maths to this.
One is the video Stir made instead of just replying to this thread
and the other is a video he better upload which is me, him discussing our shit with ppl in the background.
Two unique experiences. It's like Pokemon 5th gen all over again bros.

someone photoshop me and drei's face on this pic please

now that is how you solve beef. good shit zelma im glad you made it happen

this is why you shouldnt talk about politics online

what the fuck vert this isnt politics shit this is about ANIME TIDDIES

This post was last modified: Dec 12, 2020 at 4:34 PM by Vertette.

what the fuck vert this isnt politics shit this is about ANIME TIDDIES

art is always political