why did you feel the need to put a copypasta in my coming out thread

i'm not upset that it was a joke in of itself, there are plenty others in the thread, but something that implied you didn't read my post even if you Did just smells of insincerity and a vibe you don't want to give to a person you've just met at all

theres def a distinct vibe difference between someone calling out bad actors in their own community, and someone who is dismissive of a community focusing only on bad actors within it

This post was last modified: Jun 19, 2022 at 6:43 PM by B3ll3.

i dunno see my thing is like, im a semi joe rogan fan and honestly if you take money's logic far enough you could use it permaban me so like yeah i think its kinda weird logic and probably shouldnt kick this dude

on the other paw though, i one hundred percent think any cishet guy who's liking ben shapiro tweets or whatever about "GROOMING AHHHHH NOOOOOOO" is actually a retarded dumbfuck because thats just the facist right's latest talking point because they're economic polices suck dick so they gotta go start screaming about minorities having EVIL people in them even though theres just as many rapists or whatever in any demographic of human that exists. this whole battle though of course is just to distract the bulk of humanity from the fact that we are being ruled by lazy ivory tower elites who havent done an honest days work in their life while also making life hell for the lower economic classes simply because of their own selfish cuck greed

like yeah sure dude the queer community definitely has people who have done bad shit in (WHICH APPLIES TO EVERY OTHER DEMOGRAPHIC) but like when cishets start ranting about BAD ACTORS IN THE QUEER COMMUNITY it is not because they give a fuck about us, it is ALWAYS because they wanna ostracize the gays as much as possible to further their shit political agenda. AN AGENDA WHICH HAS THE END GOAL OF LITERAL GENOCIDE. deny it like a little cuck all you want the history books one hundred percent prove you wrong.

again, do i think this guy should be banned? no. should he stop being a facist mouthpiece who whines about minorities and instead be a decent human being who actually care about the common man and not the disgusting agenda of the ivory tower lizards? absolutely.

This post was last modified: Jun 19, 2022 at 6:56 PM by Money.

Well, I'm sorry, Money, but I've checked through my Twitter likes and I don't see a lot of truly awful harassment tweets like you say.

You've liked tweets responding with red flags to a cartoon network post supporting pride month, tweets that say "there are only two genders", tweets that say "a man is not a woman" and more. I don't buy this innocence act, sorry

and that they shouldn't be given things like hormones

they aren't

or puberty suppressants that would irreparably harm them

puberty suppressants don't "irreparably harm them" in any way, they are completely reversible (unlike puberty) and safe

or have their genitals cut off while they're young.

they don't

And that line about maraginalized and much more powerful people I don't really understand either, like where does that come from? No offense but it seems you're just making up problems that aren't really there at this point.

i don't know how to explain the long history of institutionalized homophobia, transphobia, racism, sexism and general bigotry that has led to marginalized groups having less power than white, male, straight, heterosexual, cisgender groups, or how the right has always and historically used moral panic about minorities to direct violence against them

This post was last modified: Jun 19, 2022 at 7:42 PM by Reeb.

Well, I've received a talking-to for saying that Money equivocating this to genocide was extreme. I'm not going to be specific about that and name names. It was deserved.

So I'm going to come out and say:

I don't keep up on this shit. I'm an anxious pile of fuck. I don't know every piece of minutia or detail. This shit stresses me out for a lot of personal reasons that I don't want to get into.

I value my friends and I like the people here in this community. If what I said before was offensive or deaf to the community and Belle and Money are right that this does end in genocidal campaigns, then I'm not 100% versed on it and I retract my statements on that wholesale. I don't know what it's like. I'm doing my best to be an ally and to try and make statements against things that seem unsavory but it's hard when you're fighting in the dark because the main reason you want to stick up for people is because they're your friends.

It seemed extreme to me because from the way I read it, I thought that the genocidal accusations were because of...some external circumstances? Like equating it to pedophilia was because of something specific that I didn't read. In retrospect, though, yeah. Anti-LGBTQ campaigns always end in one thing: Anti-LGBTQ, to the extreme. I was trying to argue something half-cocked and I fucked it up in several places.

I apologize for being noncommittal, especially when the thing I'm pissed about is that we're not being committal enough. People with much more storied histories than me should be fighting this battle and I wanted to chime in and I still fucked up on how I responded, and that's my bad. Sorry.

I think with this post I'm officially taking a break from Minus World for a while. This stupid drama's already cost me friends over what I frankly think should've been an open-and-shut case.

This post was last modified: Jun 19, 2022 at 7:23 PM by Money.

I will say again that the reason i keep saying equating queer people to groomers/pedophiles rises to the level of "advocating genocide" in my eyes is because a group being seen as pedophiles is literally one step removed from "this group should be dead". Again, people don't feel bad when pedophiles are killed, and we're already seeing people in high standings advocating for queer people to be lined up and shot.

Well, I've received a talking-to for saying that Money equivocating this to genocide was extreme. I'm not going to be specific about that and name names.

So I'm going to come out and say:

I don't keep up on this shit. I'm an anxious pile of fuck. I don't know every piece of minutia or detail. This shit stresses me out for a lot of personal reasons that I don't want to get into.

I value my friends and I like the people here in this community. If what I said before was offensive or deaf to the community and Belle and Money are right that this does end in genocidal campaigns, then I'm not 100% versed on it and I retract my statements on that wholesale. I don't know what it's like. I'm doing my best to be an ally and to try and make statements against things that seem unsavory but it's hard when you're fighting in the dark because the main reason you want to stick up for people is because they're your friends.

It seemed extreme to me because from the way I read it, I thought that the genocidal accusations were because of...some external circumstances? Like equating it to pedophilia was because of something specific that I didn't read. In retrospect, though, yeah. Anti-LGBTQ campaigns always end in one thing: Anti-LGBTQ, to the extreme. I was trying to argue something half-cocked and I fucked it up in several places.

I apologize for being noncommittal, especially when the thing I'm pissed about is that we're not being committal enough. People with much more storied histories than me should be fighting this battle and I wanted to chime in and I still fucked up on how I responded, and that's my bad. Sorry.

I think with this post I'm officially taking a break from Minus World for a while. This stupid drama's already cost me friends over what I frankly think should've been an open-and-shut case.

um. for what its worth im not mad at you or anything reeb i think you are a cool person and i dont really think anyone else should be mad or upset with you. ur a good person and i hope you come back when this drama is over :(

I will say again that the reason i keep saying equating queer people to groomers/pedophiles rises to the level of "advocating genocide" in my eyes is because a group being seen as pedophiles is literally one step removed from "this group should be dead". Again, people don't feel bad when pedophiles are killed, and we're already seeing people in high standings advocating for queer people to be lined up and shot.

call me an insane peace hippie if you want but i mean they really shouldnt be killed, locked the fuck up and kept away for sure obviously but honestly killing anyone for any reason whatsoever has kinda started to rub me in the wrong way the death penalty is disgusting

Now I feel pretty bad. I didn't want to be the one to be the catalyst for this temporary rift between you guys. I feel like I might just have broken you apart to a degree and all because of some stupid likes on Twitter. Please don't leave over this.

Now I feel pretty bad. I didn't want to be the one to be the catalyst for this temporary rift between you guys. I feel like I might just have broken you apart to a degree and all because of some stupid likes on Twitter. Please don't leave over this.

Don't blame yourself.

You liked a bunch of political tweets. Plenty of people do that and no one caused a shit show over it. If not for you, there would've eventually been a fight about something else and the same people would've been involved.

I'm disgusted that someone flamed Reeb in private. It's especially insane considering Reeb otherwise agreed with them. That's their own personal failing, though, not yours.

not gonna read these novels you posted but get the fuck out cs

This post was last modified: Jun 19, 2022 at 9:21 PM by Yrrzy.

Some additional context:
Immediately after this discussion, three dupes joined on VPNs to be Extremely Normal online and post some awful directed harassment.

These posts have been deleted but since it is extremely unlikely that an Unrelated obsessive joined specifically to target that kind of thing at the exact person calling him out, we can probably assume this was Captain Superstition valiantly proving his defenders wrong.

Some of us were hopeful we could let people with, uh, differing opinions*, share this community with us, the same way we got over our own bigotries as shitty teens 10 years ago, but it seems that was a mistake in this situation.

*Those of us who thought this, misjudged the situation severely

I do gotta go on record and say i feel vindicated
Anyways as discussed on discord, I think the best compromise is a one strike rule for bigotry when the member has a known past. This doesn't mean if you say something thoughtless you immediately get kicked out, but if it's clear you're a piece of shit and can't act nice you're out of here

Vibe check one-strike rule

I do gotta go on record and say i feel vindicated
Anyways as discussed on discord, I think the best compromise is a one strike rule for bigotry when the member has a known past. This doesn't mean if you say something thoughtless you immediately get kicked out, but if it's clear you're a piece of shit and can't act nice you're out of here

This is the path I had intended to take with cases like this from the start, which I may or may not have properly detailed enough on Discord yesterday.

So I'm in favor of putting that in writing, will be added to the rules proper within a day assuming no one is actually against this

Well, I'm sorry, Money, but I've checked through my Twitter likes and I don't see a lot of truly awful harassment tweets like you say, or anything about rejecting queer identity/humanity as a whole.

One really doesn't need to scroll far to find evidence to the contrary. CaptainSuperstition liked this post, and it implies that the pro-choice crowd trans people are turning from God, as if the default setting for human beings is Christianity. How utterly clueless. Considering that shortly after this thread's activity, there's alt accounts throwing a tantrum, it's safe to assume CS is responsible. So much for feeling bad, and not wanting people to judge others based on political views.

"Oh man, just ONCE I'd like to be able to join a nice group of friends without this same exact thing happening where everyone is insulted by my demented conspiracy theories. Why is it that every new person I meet has the same make-believe problem with me?!"

Raise your hand if you've never been the subject of a "witch hunt" because you've never believed in any toxic ideologies and/or tried to make excuses for them

only thing you've been subject to is a bitch hunt

This post was last modified: Jun 20, 2022 at 1:25 PM by Reeb.

I wanted to add a quick addendum and felt like it was best to do so here without making a whole-ass unnecesary new thread to do it.

My earlier post was made in an emotional frenzy and I came off to several people like I was unstable or had been slighted.

I had not been slighted. I was unstable, but that was on me; my emotions run out of control sometimes, and this was one of those times. I was told the truth and got deeply upset because I hate it when I go to bat for people and don't feel like I did good enough or misrepresented the ailing party in some way.

Nothing was said to me that would've been out of place in a normal disagreement, but I catastrophized into thinking that everyone even vaguely involved with this affair hated me, and I was being, frankly, a complete idiot melting down. I still agree with the majority of the points I made and that I need to be a more staunch ally and look into things proactively instead of only coming in when a threat is present.

As already stated on Discord, I won't be taking a break, though my posting might slow down for a while. I've already spoken with some of the people I didn't do right by, and elaborated some on my position and where I was coming from, which are statements I don't feel like putting on Minus World in case there are still bad actors roving about. In talking to people, there were no catastrophes or falling-outs like I was telling myself there'd be.

On a more thread-relevant note, Money's proposal is a good one but I don't think that we should take on the burden of "needing" to provide a space where this kind of attitude can prevail. Minus World is a good place to make a melting pot but consider that when you grew up and stopped being shitty, a common argument I've been seeing thrown around for keeping people who might be harmful around, you were more likely than not surrounded by others doing the same gradually and being introduced to marginalized communities slowly but surely, not going places with the intent of seeking out those communities. I think the circumstances differ. If someone comes here broadcasting their beliefs and one of their first moves is to poke at a transitioning community member, I don't agree we should wait until they've had time to find out private information before taking action.