I also don't feel there's cause for concern in regards to him potentially backseat moderating as we only take action against those who have violated the rules. He's no more of a backseat mod than someone who uses the report button.

Aaand now I'm in my calm remorse phase...

it's just unclear as to what your position in the Old Guard is. i'm getting mixed messages from various mods. you're saying "All I did was build the site, design the themes + logo, and create all the metagame features from scratch," but you're also saying that you have access to the staff forum and it appears that you are contributing to the discussion that is happening there. either you are moderating the forum alongside being tech support, or you are solely being tech support. which is it? this needs to be defined.

I have access to the staff forum because I've been closely involved with the whole project, and I've helped decide new policies/rules/methods. I voluntarily stepped down from the Admin position because I don't want moderation abilities and don't know if I could use them responsibly. So my main job is building and maintaining the forum, but I'm also involved with policy making to some extent. I want the best experience for everyone but I don't want to moderate on an individual basis, so that's basically what I'm doing here.

if you want to be a voice of fairness and reason, you can start by acknowledging your IRL privileges rather than pretending that they don't exist when you log into Minus World.

I really, really, really don't see how IRL privileges can carry over to MW. It's like a second life for me. Everyone is just an account. Nobody has a skin color. That's the way it works in my head, and when I'm called out for being white it rips me out of that whole experience. I don't feel bad for being white just like you shouldn't feel bad for being black. Because we didn't choose it.

i don't know everything. i really know very little and i'm not a smart person. i don't understand maths, how to read clocks, or know how to make good life decisions. i don't know how to make money. i don't know how to fill out forms and it takes me several minutes to prepare to make a simple phone call. what i do know is things that other people don't. i know my voice is unique and valuable. it isn't smart all the time or in every faculty, but i am certain that i have knowledge that is useful to people and this knowledge can only be gained from me. it may be annoying. knowledge can be annoying if you are not predisposed to obtain knowledge, and especially so if you only want to hear knowledges that affirm your own worldview. my knowledge will only give you a hard time if you respond to it in such a fashion, if you wish to resist and fight against it. you can choose to ignore it, but you don't because you know that you are getting something that you need from my posts. i am humbled to be part of your progression as a human being. you may not feel like you are progressing, you may be blinded with anger, but not all progression comes in the form of positivity and comfort. there has to be posters like me, just like there has to be posters like The Renz.

Believe it or not I have learned a lot from you. Your statement about everyone having a different viewpoint and none being more valid than any other actually changed the way I think about things. I appreciate a lot of the things you have to say...it's just when you start criticizing my entire race, I fly off the handle. I'm not going to sit here and act like it's hard to be white. But it is hard when you're a sensitive person, you really have everyone's best interests at heart, you honestly try your best, and you get called a racist anyway. Combine that with a bad temper and I end up lashing out at you. What I meant by "real racism" is the kind that's intended to be painful and comes from a place of anger and hate. I don't have any hatred toward you because it's seriously so hard for me to hate people. I just don't understand you, I don't understand why my race has to come up all the time, and I don't understand why I'm always the bad guy even though I never feel like I'm starting the conflict

I want to learn from you, I want to learn from everybody I meet, but you make it so hard. You're not obligated to change the way you interact with people, but if you are really genuine, and you really do want to help others, I feel like so many more people would benefit from your positive ideas if you weren't baiting people all the time.

i appreciate your advice, but i will not accept it. i will not and cannot apologise for being annoying to you, as it is not my responsibility to burden myself with the pain of your responses to my existence.

You shouldn't appreciate or accept my advice, it wasn't real advice so much as an attack. I was just being a dick because you frustrate me and I'm sorry.

While we're clearing the air here, I would also like to apologize for the less than charming behavior I exhibited in this thread. I hope we can learn from this experience and move past it.

This post was last modified: Feb 10, 2017 at 4:53 PM by Mario. Edit Reason: deleted

[deleted]

>Never in my entire life have I heard such BOLOGNY as the "Big Bang" creation myth. I can't even BEGIN to think how unimaginative you have to be to come up with this totally useless idea.

Not an argument. Please let me know if I misinterpreted anything you said in this quote. I realize you're not obligated to respond to this but I would appreciate it if you did.

i never said it was?

>For those that don't know about it, basically some white dude came and said "First, there was nothing, then BANG there was thing." And that's it. THAT'S THE WHOLE FUCKING STORY.
This is misinformation. The history of how the Big Bang theory came to be is a lot more nuanced than that (with ideas dating back to the 11th century.) I don't see how the race of a person's theory has anything to do with whether or not a theory is plausible but attributing the formulation of the theory to "some white dude" discounts Islamic elements such as "And the heaven We constructed with strength, and indeed, We are [its] expander." from Quran Surah 51 verse 47 and Hinduist ideas such as the possibility that the Brahmam consists of series of Big Bangs and Big Crunches. Similarly, despite my disagreements with Carl Sagan, I think he worded relation between the Big Bang theory and Hindu beliefs a lot more eloquently than I could on page 734 of God Talks With Arjuna: "The Hindu religion is the only one of the world's great faiths dedicated to the idea that the Cosmos itself undergoes an immense, indeed an infinite, number of deaths and rebirths. It is the only religion in which the time scales correspond, no doubt by accident, to those of modern scientific cosmology. Its cycles run from our ordinary day and night to a day and night of Brahma, 8.64 billion years long. Longer than the age of the Earth or the Sun and about half the time since the Big Bang. And there are much longer time scales still." Please let me know if I misinterpreted anything you said in this quote. I realize you're not obligated to respond to this but I would appreciate it if you did.

no-one has said anything about the race of a person's theory affecting its plausibility.

i'm not sure what religious creation myths which have elements similar to the big bang theory have to do with the big bang theory's uselessness. to compare Hindu and Islamic creation myths to the big bang runs the risk of

a) basing their validity in relation to their proximity to white truths (aka white myths)
b) overshadowing the more important aspects of these mythologies with the aspects that white thought finds palatable or consumable
c) mystifying the big bang theory through orientalism

science doesn't prove anything about Hindu cosmology. Hindu cosmology is its own self-sufficient ideology.

>There wasn't even any sex in it like in most of the other higher-tier creation myths,
Appeal to popularity. Please let me know if I misinterpreted anything you said in this quote. I realize you're not obligated to respond to this but I would appreciate it if you did.

the hallmark of a good myth is its appeal to the collective unconsciousness. the big bang's appeal to the collective unconsciousness is largely defined as a repression of the reactionary individual's desires. here, the big bang theory is more or less a direct continuation of the Christian God. the patriarchal God was the a priori of all existence -> the patriarchal bang is the a priori of all existence. of course, the subconscious similarities between phallic ejaculation and the big bang are not to be underestimated. the big bang theory, like Christianity, is a masturbatory ideology rather than the divine heterosexual myths propagated by other cultures. see my previously-posted essay on this for more info. whilst heterosexual creation myths are still at fault for being patriarchal and/or heteronormative, creation myths that involve feminine impetus are still more useful frameworks to base society on than masturbatory creation myths.

>Even low-tier thought systems like Christianity
What makes Christianity a low-tier thought system? Please let me know if I misinterpreted anything you said in this quote. I realize you're not obligated to respond to this but I would appreciate it if you did.

>Christianity came up with a more useful creation myth than the Atheist Big Bung theory.

Depening on what you mean by useful, I'd be interested if we could compare and contrast in what ways the Christian creation belief and the Big Bang theory were useful. Please let me know if I misinterpreted anything you said in this quote. I realize you're not obligated to respond to this but I would appreciate it if you did.

Christianity is based on ceding/suppressing all sexual pleasure in exchange for a psuedo-homosexual romance with a phallic father-figure. the love that a Christian have for God is meant to satiate his homoerotic desires so that he defaults to a solely reproductive relation with a woman, who is relegated to a non-male (or imperfect male) abject relation to masculinity as opposed to an independent entity. Christianity denies that women exist as subjects. this denial results in the lack of ability for women to self-identify with God and results in a regime of self-hatred, guilt, and identification with the phallus in the service of patriarchy. of course, under this regime, homosexual love is strictly forbidden, as it bypasses the primary need for God, which is to act as a libidinal inhibitor. transgender people also bypass God-as-libidinal-inhibitor in a somewhat similar fashion. Christianity is also a centralising power and works hand in hand with capitalist ideology - power circulates towards God, those most similar to God (AKA cis white straight men) inherit the most money. the Christian ideology of God is the root impetus behind all white colonialist exploits, and its erasure of indigenous sexuality/traditions/societal structures continues to this day. for these reasons and many others, i would rate Christianity as a particularly low-tier thought system, just one rung above science.

white science more or less just represents a more streamlined, more invisible version of Christianity. my thoughts on this have been posted on old minus world.

>The only thing the Big Bang creation myth has every done for us was give us the title for one of the worst TV shows of the 21st Century.
It's clearly had a bigger impact on society than a terrible sitcom. Whether the impact has been positive or negative is well worthing into though. Please let me know if I misinterpreted anything you said in this quote. I realize you're not obligated to respond to this but I would appreciate it if you did.

yes

>What happened to the GOOD OLD DAYS when white people came up with some sick-ass ideas like the Kalevala poem or the Greek pantheon or the Celtic cycles.

Red herring. Please let me know if I misinterpreted anything you said in this quote. I realize you're not obligated to respond to this but I would appreciate it if you did.

i'm not sure what you mean by this

>Nowadays we have these BUNG ASS SCIENTISTS just putting in NO EFFORT WHATSOEVER and making a story about some unexplained Hollywood-esque EXPLOSION and expecting everyone to be ok with that. Well, not me.
What led you to the conclusion that theoretical physics is an effortless practice? Please let me know if I misinterpreted anything you said in this quote. I realize you're not obligated to respond to this but I would appreciate it if you did.

theoretical physics requires no effort because it is just extrapolation on known, external quantities. there is no attempt made at altering the world. it is, by definition, a reactionary practice.

>christians: your theories about the world are wrong, we will suppress all your culture's knowledge and prioritise our own (with the Bible).

>scientists: your theories about the world are wrong, we will suppress all your culture's knowledge and prioritise our own (with the academic-industry complex).

But that can be said about any ideology. Please let me know if I misinterpreted anything you said in this quote. I realize you're not obligated to respond to this but I would appreciate it if you did.

it is, by large, only applicable to white ideologies.

>>I like the part where you implied that something has to sound cool to be factual

>i'm not really in the industry of knowing what's cool and what's not but facts are literally useless lol

Are you saying facts are useless to you personally or are you invalidating people who personally find facts to be useful? Please let me know if I misinterpreted anything you said in this quote. I realize you're not obligated to respond to this but I would appreciate it if you did.

i am saying or doing neither of those things.

>>>>>facts are literally useless lol

>>>>ain't that a fact... oof

>>>i don't have access to the structures of white male hetero-capitalist power necessary to transform statements into facts.

>>Literally useless apart from keeping people grounded to reality lol

>which reality hahaha lmao

>that's the other problem with the big bang; the story is so unbelievably stupid-

I'm not offended but I legitimately don't understand how a deregatory term for neuro-atypicals could apply to a scientific theory. Please let me know if I misinterpreted anything you said in this quote. I realize you're not obligated to respond to this but I would appreciate it if you did.

thank you for your comment, i will try to be more aware of my ableist language in the future. i will refer back to this argument later on, though.

>that's the other problem with the big bang; the story is so unbelievably stupid-/one-dimensional that it makes people put their faith in a monolithic reality because they lose the ability to conceptualise/create other, more useful realities.

I personally don't take anything that doesn't hold up to scrutiny seriously and I don't put faith in scientific theories or let them limit my ability to explore objections to them. Are you saying that other people operate this way? Please let me know if I misinterpreted anything you said in this quote. I realize you're not obligated to respond to this but I would appreciate it if you did.

i, for one, am someone who takes things that don't hold up to scrutiny seriously.

i think a lot of male believers of science let science (God) inhibit their ability to explore alternate realities where they are not signifiers of the imminence of power.

>so like when someone says science grounds us to reality i'm like hmmm... you mean the reality where everyone gets fucked over by money relations and no-one understands each other because of racism/sexism??

Although I don't agree with the idea that "science grounds us to reality" since I see it as a method of forming hypothesis and not something I put faith in, I do not see any evidence that the person you're responding to thinks science grounds us to reality for the purpose of harming monitary relations or fueling misunderstanding, racism, or sexism. Please let me know if I misinterpreted anything you said in this quote. I realize you're not obligated to respond to this but I would appreciate it if you did.

i don't think that he does either but that doesn't change the fact that science is an ideology that permits these things

>hmmm yeah i'm not really sure i'm sold on this whole reality thing but thanks for the offer
I'm not sold on the idea of being happy that reality is the way it is but I'm sold on the idea that reality is real. Please let me know if I misinterpreted anything you said in this quote. I realize you're not obligated to respond to this but I would appreciate it if you did.

reality is real if it uses self-referential to justify its realness. this is precisely the same ideology that is used to justify God.

>the main argument behind science is: "our truth is real so our reality is true" looool what a cowardly and irresponsible copout
I do not understand where people get the idea that this is what science is. Please let me know if I misinterpreted anything you said in this quote. I realize you're not obligated to respond to this but I would appreciate it if you did.

it comes from the idea that science privileges externality over internality

[qupte]

>part of the reason why science is so terrible at connecting people or understanding mental health is because it fails to acknowledge that no-one has the same access point to the singular reality it claims is the domain of all humanity. it places the knowledge of the individual's brain as the centre of the universe.

Is your notion that science has a job to do anything based on an idea that science is an entity rather than a vehicle? Please let me know if I misinterpreted anything you said in this quote. I realize you're not obligated to respond to this but I would appreciate it if you did.

[/quote]

vehicles only move if they are manned by entities

>for scientists, there is no difference between the two sentences:

>Where are you getting this idea that there's more than one reality?

>Where are you getting this idea that there's more than my reality?

I highly doubt every scientist on Earth believes only one reality exists or that their reality is the only reality that exists. Please let me know if I misinterpreted anything you said in this quote. I realize you're not obligated to respond to this but I would appreciate it if you did.

me too.

>>I took an intro to philosophy class too. Doesn't change the fact that we're all part of the same reality. Apples fall from trees, gravity exists. Maybe there's infinite realities where that isn't true, but I've no reason to believe I can communicate with these realities and have it be anything more than my imagination. It's kind of narcissistic to think that you're capable of such things because you Beat The System and drink non fluoridated water

>white people are so hopeless that they actually think that brown spirituality is narcissism or taking LSD lmfao

What is "brown spirituality" and when did the person you're replying to define it as narcissistic or LSD-fueled? I thought his post was directed at you as a person. Please let me know if I misinterpreted anything you said in this quote. I realize you're not obligated to respond to this but I would appreciate it if you did.

i don't have an answer to what brown spirituality is but it is the sovereignty of all brown people.

spritey used the phrase 'tripping balls' in an edit of my post and called my worldview narcissistic on another occasion in this thread.

>>Like if you just assume everything you can think of actually exists, I'm sure it's easy to come up with infinite theories, but how are they supposed to be tested by others? If nobody else can see what you're talking about, these observations you claim to have had are exactly as "literally useless" as you claim facts to be

>i don't think i ever said anything about things that i think of 'actually exist' in the sense that you are referring to. of course you aren't able to realise the things that are in my world, because you believe in white scientific reality.

What is "white scientific reality" and when did the person you're responding to say he believed in it? Please let me know if I misinterpreted anything you said in this quote. I realize you're not obligated to respond to this but I would appreciate it if you did.

white scientific reality is the ideological framework i have referred to throughout this topic. spritey did not say that he believed in it because like a lot of reactionary white people he is in denial over the effect that whiteness has over his scientific framework.

>great to see that our administrators are abusing the forum's features to literally be racist
Would the forum function better if MW included a definition of racism written by you? Please let me know if I misinterpreted anything you said in this quote. I realize you're not obligated to respond to this but I would appreciate it if you did.

yes

>>>great to see that our administrators are abusing the forum's features to literally be racist

>>do you want us to warn/ban him

>i'm against banning people but i think measures should be taken against abusing autocorrect in this kind of way

I actually wish the only forum rules were "no posting anything illegal or against server TOS" so I'm against banning members too but probably for the wrong reasons. As for autocorrect abuse I've brought up the idea before of having a debate forum where spells are disabled. I don't understand why you posted your ideas on a shitposting forum dedicated to Super Mario Bros with post-modifying spell functionality if you were expecting a serious debate. Please let me know if I misinterpreted anything you said in this quote. I realize you're not obligated to respond to this but I would appreciate it if you did.

regardless of whether or not i was expecting a serious debate, there is no place for racist abuse of forum mechanics. racism is always serious

>>Like your whole viewpoint is based on things becoming real because you think about them. This is so cyclical and self-fulfilling that it's impossible to argue against {wat}

>i think there's a misunderstanding here.

I think you're both misunderstanding each other. Please let me know if I misinterpreted anything you said in this quote. I realize you're not obligated to respond to this but I would appreciate it if you did.

all interactions are predicated upon misunderstanding. this doesn't change the fact that spritey's ideology is racist.

>i'm not saying that my mind is the source of reality in the sense that i think something up and therefore it exists tangibly, or i can make something external to me disappear from my observation.
I'm glad you cleared that up now but it doesn't suprise me if anyone came to the conclusion that those are what your beliefs are when they read your posts. Please let me know if I misinterpreted anything you said in this quote. I realize you're not obligated to respond to this but I would appreciate it if you did.

such a conclusion is more likely be the result of white scientific thought

>and i think there's a problem with just assuming that those worlds that science can't engage with or doesn't understand simply don't exist.
There are people who believe that things that we don't have the tools to observe do not exist? Please let me know if I misinterpreted anything you said in this quote. I realize you're not obligated to respond to this but I would appreciate it if you did.

yes. spritey appears to be one of them

>it's lazy and, yes, it is oppressive.
It does seem like it would be lazy to assume everything we don't have tools to observe is nonexistant. I'm trying to think of how, if there are people who hold this belief, they could use it to oppress people, but I'm drawing a blank. Can I ask you to explain how that's opressive or will you shift the burden of proof and say that it's not your job to educate me? Please let me know if I misinterpreted anything you said in this quote. I realize you're not obligated to respond to this but I would appreciate it if you did.

white people have historically used the denial of black and brown realities to justify oppression

>i also think there's a problem with assuming that the world we exist in is the scientific world
What's "the scientific world"? Please let me know if I misinterpreted anything you said in this quote. I realize you're not obligated to respond to this but I would appreciate it if you did.

the scientific world is the world that is assumed to be measurable, perfectly knowable, mutual, non-mystical, and perfectly external. in this context, science is an attempt at colonialising of the world.

>i also think there's a problem with assuming that the world we exist in is the scientific world and the rest are just imaginary worlds.
I don't want to keep responding to the same statements with the same questions in the same posts but I'm really curious as to who believes that a world we don't have the tools to observe cannot possibly exist. Please let me know if I misinterpreted anything you said in this quote. I realize you're not obligated to respond to this but I would appreciate it if you did.

that stipulation has nothing to do with the post you have quoted

>there's nothing scientific about the world; that's just the framework some of use to engage with it.

Wait if you actually know that science is a framework to engage with the world rather than a set of rules then how could a "scientific world" possibly exist? Please let me know if I misinterpreted anything you said in this quote. I realize you're not obligated to respond to this but I would appreciate it if you did.

it exists in the sense that it is reified by the scientific framework

>>But in all honesty if you think that in the sentence "(insert race here) people are so X" the contents of X change the bigotry factor at all, you're kinda deluded

>>You're the one who called an entire race hopeless lmfao

>>You call white people one thing, I change it to another thing and your sentence is suddenly racist? 2muchsense

>my sentence isn't racist because you changed it to another thing.

The person you're talking to isn't making racist statements when you change their meanings either. Please let me know if I misinterpreted anything you said in this quote. I realize you're not obligated to respond to this but I would appreciate it if you did.

i am not changing the meaning of their racist actions

>you are being racist for deliberately trying to silence or suppress a brown voice who is criticising whiteness.
How are you able to determine the degree of deliberateness of another person's actions and whether or not your intepretation of what they are doing aligns with their modus operandi? Please let me know if I misinterpreted anything you said in this quote. I realize you're not obligated to respond to this but I would appreciate it if you did.

a person doesn't have to be deliberately racist in order for them to be partake in racist ideology. if that was the case we'd have a lot less racism in the world. i don't care if spritey was or wasn't consciously deliberate with his racist actions. it doesn't change the fact that his actions were racist. this is probably one of the biggest problems white people have with understanding why they are racist. white people believe that being racist is a kind of active mentality whereby they are always already aware of whether or not they are being racist. this belief is the root of a lot of misunderstanding between white people and people of color.

it is here that i would like to go back to my usage of the slur 'stupid.' i didn't intend for this to be ableist but that doesn't change the fact that ableist ideology informed my actions. can you explain to me what the difference between me exercising my ableist privileges in the service of ableism and spritey exercising his white privileges in the service of racism?

>there is, however, overwhelming evidence (even from science!) that white culture
What is white culture? I think those suit & tie racists or w/e Hillary Clinton is talking about believe in paneuropeanism but I think there are various "white" cultures and I don't understand why people want to lump all white people into one category. Please let me know if I misinterpreted anything you said in this quote. I realize you're not obligated to respond to this but I would appreciate it if you did.

white culture is either the culture of propagating white supremacy or the socio-political spaces occupied by white people

>(their habits, beliefs, consumption etc.) is bad for a few things. the environment being one, for example. i do think that without help from other races, white people are more or less hopeless. that is not to say that brown/black people are inherently better, but that there are qualities/ways of living that we have that can be of benefit to the world. our cultures are, after all, much older than white culture, and whilst this by no means makes old knowledge better than new knowledge, we are currently at risk of losing a great deal of the total human knowledge due white supremacy and white culture (which has happened historically on colossal scales and still continues to this day through different means).
I don't know have a way to give a response to some of this because I don't know what you mean by "white culture" when there are many different cultures of white people. White supremecy has increased recently with the rise of the Alt Right, you're correct, but I don't see how lumping all white people into one culture is going to help fight against the unity and supremecy of white people if that's what you're trying to do. You're the last person I'd ever expect to propagate paneuropeanism.

white culture is largely homogenous. unifying the actions of white people under one culture is a useful tool to identify the general problems of white thought. when it is necessary to break down white culture into smaller parts, this is done so easily.

i don't know what the term paneuropeanism means

Then again, you do have the white supremecist symbol "88" in your forum signature. http://www.adl.org/combating-hate/hate-o.../c/88.html and for the record, I don't think you're purposefully trying to promote paneuropeanism and I think the number in your signature is a coincidence I just don't understand what your actual intent is. It'd be helpful for me to know so I don't have to let my own imagination run wild. EDIT: She changed it to 87. NVM, yeah, it was just an unfortunate coincidence.

the number was the total amount of users on MW. after a user told me about its usage as a hate symbol i changed it.

>if i say things like 'white people are x,' i'm doing it deliberately to show you what it feels like.

Fallacy of relevance. A wrong cannot right another wrong. Please let me know if I misinterpreted anything you said in this quote. I realize you're not obligated to respond to this but I would appreciate it if you did.

i never said that racism was wrong. morality is a useless (and white) concept

>now imagine someone saying 'white people are x,' and then that person along with thousand others invading your countries; rewriting the geography of your country; changing its name; forcing you to use their language; shipping you off to their own country without ever seeing your family again; forcing you to build their buildings, farm their crops, raise their children; raping you, your sisters and your mothers, your land; burning your books, destroying your idols, destroying your homes; paying them less than you or not at all; and killing you. imagine them doing all this for generations. because white people are x.
Many white cultures have indeed participated in these atrocities and I condemn them for it. Many other cultures have also participated in such atrocities and I condemn them for it as well. Is that okay with you? Please let me know if I misinterpreted anything you said in this quote. I realize you're not obligated to respond to this but I would appreciate it if you did.

as long as you aren't equivocating them or using poc-orchestrated genocide as a way to conceptualise white-orchestrated genocide as non-racist, that is fine.

>you may be thinking 'but i didn't do that.' that's true, you didn't. but someone did. and white people benefit from all this.
It is terrible that people benefit from the atrocities of the past but basically anyone who has a roof over their head, three square meals a day, and running water is benifiting from the atrocities of the past. Please let me know if I misinterpreted anything you said in this quote. I realize you're not obligated to respond to this but I would appreciate it if you did.

i did not choose to have my ancestors murdered so that i could have a roof over my head.

>always. this is part of your legacy and heritage
Not mine considering my grandparents or great grand parents on both sides of my family immigrated to the USA to escape opression. What do you suggestion a person who does have a family tree with evil people in it to do to correct the wrongs of their family name? Please let me know if I misinterpreted anything you said in this quote. I realize you're not obligated to respond to this but I would appreciate it if you did.

this is irrelevant information. if you are white, you benefit from all systems of power that use whiteness as a signifier of supremacy. you inherit the wealth of white colonialism.

there is no correcting the wrongs of white attrocities. the only thing to do now is dismantle white supremacy.

>and no, you didn't ask for it. but we aren't at a stage where we can say 'this is all in the past' or 'we should all move on.'
I honestly don't see how this relates to the next point you're about to bring up. Please let me know if I misinterpreted anything you said in this quote. I realize you're not obligated to respond to this but I would appreciate it if you did.

>it isn't in the past and there are places where a lot of these things are happening today (Palestine, Syria, Iraq etc.).

Very glad you mentioned atrocities in less fortunate countries and I'd be very interested to know what I can do to help end suffering elsewhere in the world. Being involved in politics as a career is a no-go for me considering the terrible things I've said in the past on an internet where things are written in ink. I have hydrologists in the family who drill wells near impovershed villages so they don't have to walk 10 miles a day to bring water home but I don't know if I have the ability to go into that field either (my neurological disability would probably make it even more difficult.) According to the aptitude test I took at my college I should be a paralegal, which sort of makes me uncomfortable because it's not going to help suffering people in other countries. I could always research non-corrupt charity organizations and donate money to them. Is that enough for a person like me or is there anything else I can do to make the world a better place? Please let me know if I misinterpreted anything you said in this quote. I realize you're not obligated to respond to this but I would appreciate it if you did.

one of the best things white people can do is call out racism where and when they see it. this alone will do a great deal. as a white person, it is not enough to not be racist. it is not enough to apologise for the actions of their ancestors. i don't know how effective donating to charities is and of course that depends on your income.

another really good thing white people can do is listen to people of colour

finally, it is important to remember that it is not necessary for white people to help people of colour in order for racism to be defeated. white people will not save people of colour from racism. white capitalism will fall not because of white help but because of revolutionary brown and black community solidarity. it is imperative that all white allies of black and brown people are aware of this at all times.

>and contrary to your thinking that i'm shoehorning a critique of white people into a topic about the Big Bang theory, i think it's very valid to bring it up. they are both tools to discredit and invalidate other worldviews. the weight of a white person censoring my words in the historical and contemporary context of racism, saying that my beliefs are based on narcissism, or because I have taken drugs and thus lack credulity (despite psychedelics having been used as entheogens by my ancestors for generations). i think it's very appropriate and even necessary to bring up race in order to fully understand what just happened and why it shouldn't happen again.
That's an interesting way of looking at it. I hadn't thought of that. Please let me know if I misinterpreted anything you said in this quote. I realize you're not obligated to respond to this but I would appreciate it if you did.

this way of looking at it is key to understanding why spritey's spells should be removed from my posts

>>Science is supposed to be a method of forming hypotheses not an unquestionable religion. Doesn't really make sense when people say "science says this" or "I fucking love science" when science is more like "well, I did an experiment where every time I dropped an egg off a roof it broke. I hypothesize that naked eggs generally cannot be dropped off roofs of buildings without breaking." I guess that is oppressive but only to eggs in this scenario. {:P}

>the prevalent methodology of any given epoch will always be perceived as a disinterested 'method of forming hypotheses.' ironically, this in turn becomes the 'unquestionable religion.'

I actually agree that this is a problem and I wish people drew attention to it more often. I still don't see how it invalidates the scientific method itself. Just how people utilize it. Please let me know if I misinterpreted anything you said in this quote. I realize you're not obligated to respond to this but I would appreciate it if you did.

the 'scientific method itself' is responsible for how people utilise it. the method is the execution of the method.

>just look at this thread, for example. do you really think that in the middle ages, Christianity, when it was the absolute way of knowing the world, meant anything even remotely similar to what it does today?
Do I "really" think modern-day Christianity is remotely similar to medeivel Christianity? Did I ever say I even thought modern-day Christianity was remotely similar to medeivel Christianity? Not that I can recall. I don't even see how this is relevant to the rest of your paragraph. Please let me know if I misinterpreted anything you said in this quote. I realize you're not obligated to respond to this but I would appreciate it if you did.

it was a rhetorical question

>a problem with white thought
I still don't know what you mean by "white thought" but I'm going to give you the benifit of the doubt and assume you don't advocate paneuropeanism. Please let me know if I misinterpreted anything you said in this quote. I realize you're not obligated to respond to this but I would appreciate it if you did.

hopefully i have answered this elsewhere

>a problem with white thought is that it thinks that dropping eggs off roofs = oppression and killing brown people = oppression are comparable things.
If that was what I actually thought (and it isn't; you're projecting your own meaning onto a thing I said) then it would be a problem with my thought process, not a problem with the general thought process of people who share the similar skin melanin levels with me. Please let me know if I misinterpreted anything you said in this quote. I realize you're not obligated to respond to this but I would appreciate it if you did.

if the culture you are immersed in is tangential on your whiteness (which it is) then yes, it is a problem of white thought.

>i'll expose some things that were posted in the Slack group chat for some reason and respond to them here. i thought we were all about transparency but here we have it. this is our moderation team, everyone:
I was under the impression that everyone had free access to the MW slack logs. I think later in this post you clarified that you aren't saying the MW Slack is a secret so I don't know what you mean by this. Please let me know if I misinterpreted anything you said in this quote. I realize you're not obligated to respond to this but I would appreciate it if you did.

whilst it is true that the Slack cabal is not a secret group, it is true that not everyone who uses MW observes the Slack cabal. it is also true that the posts T-Man, Yoshin and Spritey made that i quoted were potentially unsafe and overcommitting, and could have been easily punished (posts made in the Slack cabal are beyond the jurisdiction of the Old Guard). that is not to say they broke any MW rules with their posts, but the decision to post on there instead of the MW group was indeed very intriguing. i think T-man's saltiness in response to this proves that there was an ulterior reason behind them posting in the Slack cabal. i think the reason as to why spritey felt the urge to shift his medium of transmission is clear; he was losing his cool in the ring with me, and the Slack cabal was a more authoritative space for spritey to vent. idk whether or not spritey had forgot that i had access to Slack (it is probably just more likely that he overlooked the fact that i would punish his play in the way that i did), but it's clear that he sees the Slack cabal as a space where he is more dominant than I am, which is true. if MW is the ring, Slack is like the backstage area.

this is also why i find it incredulous that some mods are trying to say that spritey isn't able to backseat moderate. it's quite clear that he does. you can even see it in the tone of the post i revealed. the overreactive response i received from T-Man and others as a result of my exposé proves that i broke some kind of unwritten rule governing the more nuanced mechanics of the Old Guard.

>>spritey [7:01 PM] Just so we're all clear: There's no reason to undo spells on the basis of race-based "silencing". Spells when used properly can "silence" anybody, equally. I say only undo spells such as autocorrect if the added content actually breaks a rule

>as far as i'm aware, racism is against the rules and it has been for a long time.

If you want to go by with what the rules say you'd probably do well to bear in mind the "This is an encompassing rule, so it's not exclusive to minorities" clause in the discrimination rule and raise your concerns and disaproval of it if you disaprove of it. This is more of a response to the other things you were saying (such as "white thought") but in regards to this specific context, I don't see how jokingly using post-modifying spells on a Super Mario Bros shitposting subforum is racist. Please let me know if I misinterpreted anything you said in this quote. I realize you're not obligated to respond to this but I would appreciate it if you did.

i have raised my disapproval of it for years and it has yet to be addressed. i don't expect an all-white moderation team to correct the racism rule any time soon.

i've explained already why spritey's joke is profoundly racist.

>>spritey [7:04] Excusing certain users from certain spell effects based on race would be unnecessary and would cause real-life underprivileged users to actually be given extra privileges while on the forum - and MW isn't in the reparations business

>this is such an incredulous post, it's almost like you WANT members to remain underprivileged.

You're applying your interpretation to a thing Spritey said? I notice this a lot from you and perhaps I'm guilty of applying incorrect interpretations to the things people say too. Please let me know if I misinterpreted anything you said in this quote. I realize you're not obligated to respond to this but I would appreciate it if you did.

aside from all readings inherently being interpretative...

... i don't really see how i interpreted this is too hard to extrapolate. spritey believes that online interactions are somehow not 'real-life,' and uses this as a basis to absolve his white privilege from having an effect on his posting habits and his exploitative interactions with brown people. it is also important to note that spritey believes that him not being allowed to use his white privilege is equivocal with me, a brown person, gaining 'extra privileges'. this is a problem of white thought.

>>t-man [7:08 PM] I think Oracular's notion is ludicrous to be honest, but I'm a smelly white so what I think holds no water

>LOL at least you're honest.

Are you calling T-man a smelly white? Please let me know if I misinterpreted anything you said in this quote. I realize you're not obligated to respond to this but I would appreciate it if you did.

no, T-man is calling himself a smelly white. for the record, i do agree with him that what he thinks holds no water, however.

>>spritey [7:11 PM] It just seems to me like race isn't important on a site where you're playing a character and your actual appearance is only revealed at your discretion

>as much as i'd like to believe, Minus World doesn't exist in a bubble. remember that time you said that reality is a tangible space we all exist in? is Minus World now exempt from this reality or what? i know white people desperately want to forget about their white guilt but it doesn't quite work like that. if there was a time where race wasn't important, white people have certainly made sure that it does today.

I don't know about Spritey but I don't deseprately want to forget white guilt; I am not guilty in the slightest for being white. I am unhappy about the atrocities in world history and in the modern day world though. Please let me know if I misinterpreted anything you said in this quote. I realize you're not obligated to respond to this but I would appreciate it if you did.

i don't think white guilt is the concept of feeling guilty for being white. white guilt is the (subconscious) internalised self-hatred white people feel for knowing that a large part of their wealth is due to them having stolen it from black and brown people (be it in the form of labour, land, rape, or whatever). that's quite different from the feeling guilty for being white.

>>spritey [7:26 PM] At the end of the day I don't want to be a forum where feeling disadvantaged is reason enough to be given an extra advantage. Because that's not a fun game

>Racism - the Game.

>you're actually getting really worked up about being called out on your racism huh? i'm sorry that it is upsetting your experience of Minus World, but my experience of your racism doesn't just end at 75 XP comic sans sticky notes.

"Not a fun game" was obviously rhetorical but it seems like he isn't upset for being called out on his alleged racism; it seems like he doesn't see how anything he's said or done in this thread is racist. And neither do I. Please let me know if I misinterpreted anything you said in this quote. I realize you're not obligated to respond to this but I would appreciate it if you did.

idk, he is talking about advantages and disadvantages as if they are balancing mechanics in the MW metagame.

>>yoshin [7:32 PM] yeah orion's shit makes no sense when we have no way of knowing someone's race

>>it isn't about knowing someone's race, and even if it was, you know that spritey is white and you know that i am brown. even other brown and black people internalise whiteness and use it to shut down other poc. no, it is about the inherent vectors of power whiteness carries and we should be actively trying to combat that. like i said, i know white people desperately want to pretend to not be white but there's no shirking away your responsibilities on this one.

I don't know about Yoshin, but I think a lot of people just don't agree that what you are saying taking place in the world is actually taking place in the world. As for me IDK. I seem to agree with some of the things you say but not your entire political narrative. (Not exactly relevant but for some reason I thought you were half Japanese and half white until this thread so you being brown is news to me.) Please let me know if I misinterpreted anything you said in this quote. I realize you're not obligated to respond to this but I would appreciate it if you did.

ok

>>Yeah that's cool and everything, but we're not gonna punish others to protect your fragile sensibilities. As far as I'm concerned you are both entitled to your opinion and there's no cause for moderator action unless it escalates to personal attacks and slurs.

>another classic racist tactic - calling the result of responding to massive cultural and ancestral genocide 'fragile,' but somehow your white friend getting upset at the thought of not being able to use a spell on a mario message board the way he'd like to isn't fragile.

I thought your responses in this thread were what he was calling fragile, not your ancestors who faced atrocities. When did he call them fragile? Please let me know if I misinterpreted anything you said in this quote. I realize you're not obligated to respond to this but I would appreciate it if you did.

my responses in this thread are the result of responding to massive cultural and ancestral genocide.

>>Also, we didn't say anything in the Slack that we didn't also say in this thread, so what was even the point?

>just thought it would be useful to show other people the kind of passive aggressive tone you guys use behind closed doors (heaven knows what else you say on more private channels of communication). i hope it isn't too much of a problem for you guys.

I've stated this before but I talk shit about everyone on a constant basis behind their back (except I don't do it under the assumption they can't find out.) Is this abnormal? Please let me know if I misinterpreted anything you said in this quote. I realize you're not obligated to respond to this but I would appreciate it if you did.

sadly, i don't think it is.

>>we should just pre-emptively ban everyone except orion tbh

>believe it or not, not everyone on this forum is racist, and i truly believe that a lot of the ones that are aware of their white privilege and know that it must be removed in order to build a better world we live in want to try and mitigate the effects of this as much as possible and listen to people that can help them achieve this. i have made racist posts on Minus World in the past and i have learnt from (white!) people who have pointed this out to me.

Am I racist? Please let me know if I misinterpreted anything you said in this quote. I realize you're not obligated to respond to this but I would appreciate it if you did.

i think that's the wrong question. i don't know at what point someone who propagates racist ideology becomes a racist. it is far more important to defeat racist ideology than it is to defeat racists, because the former is far more pervasive and intoxicating. i can walk away from racists, i can't walk away from racism. i can point out when the behaviours you or anyone else is participating in are due to racist ideology without addressing whether or not you are a racist. furthermore, a lot of racists wouldn't be racist if they were more educated on what it means to be white. but in order for that to happen, white people need to stop taking being called out on their racist behaviour less personally.

what is more important than whether or not you are a racist is whether or not you admit the times in which you are racist, and whether or not you take measures to prevent that mistake from happening again.

>>>just thought it would be useful to show other people the kind of passive aggressive tone you guys use behind closed doors (heaven knows what else you say on more private channels of communication). i hope it isn't too much of a problem for you guys.

>>Passive aggressive? Because some of us don't agree with your sentiment?

>look bro i know you're embarrassed that i posted your slack treehouse club messages but there's really no need to get so worked up over this.

How do you know he's embarassed or what emotion a person across the internet is feeling at any given time? Please let me know if I misinterpreted anything you said in this quote. I realize you're not obligated to respond to this but I would appreciate it if you did.

one of the reasons why i am the Old Guard's greatest nemesis is because i know them inside out

>>tl;dr: nobody said anything racist except Oracular herself (again)

>>I also like how you think the slack is some kind of secret chat when it's clearly linked from the forum and anyone is allowed in

>dunno where i said slack was a secret chat, but it's interesting nonetheless that you decided to post that content in there and not on the forum. if everyone's allowed in i'm sure you should have no qualms with me posting the discussion here.

People hae qualms that the discussions were posted here? Please let me know if I misinterpreted anything you said in this quote. I realize you're not obligated to respond to this but I would appreciate it if you did.

T-man evidently was.

>it's really concerning that one of our administrators thinks i've said anything racist in this topic, i thought that we were done with this kind of mentality when McKnackus and Teddy left. it really is regrettable that you're toxic thought processes help govern the way that this forum is managed.
McKnackus and Teddy are racist? Please let me know if I misinterpreted anything you said in this quote. I realize you're not obligated to respond to this but I would appreciate it if you did.

again, i don't see how pointing out McKnackus and Teddy's participation in racist ideologies means that i see them as racists.

>>>believe it or not, not everyone on this forum is racist, and i truly believe that a lot of the ones that are aware of their white privilege and know that it must be removed in order to build a better world we live in want to try and mitigate the effects of this as much as possible and listen to people that can help them achieve this.

>>"Help me help you achieve spiritual nirvana by making the metagame easier for me"

>things that white people do: believe that removing racism from the forum is a metagame tactic

Pretty sure the person you're responding to was being facesious. Please let me know if I misinterpreted anything you said in this quote. I realize you're not obligated to respond to this but I would appreciate it if you did.

here is more evidence that spritey perceives my attempts at changing the racism rule as a metagame play, by the way. we can either see how spritey acts under the veneer of jokery to peddle 'casual racism,' or we can continue to give the white man the benefit of the doubt.

>>>are you trying to imply that some kinda "Reverse Racism" thing exists?

>>Nope it's just racism lol

>>You can give me your "white people have magic powers and have everything going for them all the time" spiel but it'll never stop being complete unadulterated childish bullshit

>white people don't have magic powers and really have very little going for them. i know it's a hard pill to swallow but admitting the fact that you have an illness is the first step towards being cured

Are you gaslighting? Please let me know if I misinterpreted anything you said in this quote. I realize you're not obligated to respond to this but I would appreciate it if you did.

white thought is undeniably pathological.

>>>white people don't have magic powers and really have very little going for them. i know it's a hard pill to swallow but admitting the fact that you have an illness is the first step towards being cured

>>I'm the one with an illness{?}

>>You think you can share thoughts with trees

>and you think you aren't racist, i guess that makes us both delusional

I do not understand the intention you had behind making this post. Please let me know if I misinterpreted anything you said in this quote. I realize you're not obligated to respond to this but I would appreciate it if you did.

can you explain what you don't understand?

>>Honestly I hope you never have to experience actual racism because you couldn't handle it. I'm gonna bow out of this thread now before it becomes too messy

>'actual racism' lol what an amazing term. i guess white people think that 'casual racism' and 'actual racism' aren't part of the same system and don't feed each other or something.

At this point am I to assume you believe all white people have all the same exact beliefs as your interpetation of Spritey's beliefs are? Please let me know if I misinterpreted anything you said in this quote. I realize you're not obligated to respond to this but I would appreciate it if you did.

no

>i can kind of see why someone who doesn't have to experience being on the receiving end of racism would think in this way, but it's a flawed way of thinking.
It's easy to call a way of thinking flawed when you invent it and then claim that it's held by the person you're talking to. Please let me know if I misinterpreted anything you said in this quote. I realize you're not obligated to respond to this but I would appreciate it if you did.

i am not inventing spritey's racism, but it certainly is racist to think that i am doing that. it is a problem of white thought that white people do not listen to brown and black people when they point out racist ideology.

>you, on the other hand can't even handle me calling you out over your posts. this isn't going to become too messy unless you make it too messy.
Are you calling him out over things he's actually saying or are you calling him out on your interpretations of things he's saying? Please let me know if I misinterpreted anything you said in this quote. I realize you're not obligated to respond to this but I would appreciate it if you did.

how can i observe the difference between what he's 'actually saying' and what i think he's actually saying?

>>Spritey has nothing to do with moderation, fyi.

>yeah i wasn't sure about this one. he sure likes to think that he has, though, and he definitely has enough connections to the mod decisions to backseat moderate if left unchecked.

Is this true? Spritey has influence over MW? Please let me know if I misinterpreted anything you said in this quote. I realize you're not obligated to respond to this but I would appreciate it if you did.

spritey certainly has influence over MW. i find it amazing that people don't see how this is blatantly obvious. i don't see how someone who literally has access to the staff forum and has input in their discussions can be considered to be as influential as someone who can just make warns. it's dense beyond belief.

yeah it was tough to respond to puddin's X-Ray attack too, i don't expect anyone except them to bother reading it

I'm not denying that I have influence. I'm one of the main creators of this revision of the site and I've weighed in on all staff decisions so far, nobody is trying to hide this

This post was last modified: Feb 10, 2017 at 5:07 PM by Mario. Edit Reason: deleted

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yeah it was tough to respond to puddin's X-Ray attack too, i don't expect anyone except them to bother reading it

I always read everything

yeah it was tough to respond to puddin's X-Ray attack too, i don't expect anyone except them to bother reading it

yo that took way more effort than an x-ray don't sell puddin short
i'm p. sure it was a neomax

yo that took way more effort than an x-ray don't sell puddin short
i'm p. sure it was a neomax

neomax 2 actually

This post was last modified: Feb 10, 2017 at 5:07 PM by Mario. Edit Reason: deleted

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This post was last modified: Oct 4, 2016 at 12:45 AM by God.

I'm not denying that I have influence. I'm one of the main creators of this revision of the site and I've weighed in on all staff decisions so far, nobody is trying to hide this

>All I did was build the site, design the themes + logo, and create all the metagame features from scratch.

>nothing to do with [the Old Guard]

>He's no more of a backseat mod than someone who uses the report button.

the Old Guard has only stopped trying to hide your backseat moderation after i showed them receipts.

This post was last modified: Oct 4, 2016 at 1:06 AM by Yoshin. Edit Reason: It does break etiquette

Kinda rude: Show

Hint: nobody except o-so-spectacular wants to talk about white supremacy on minus world

This post was last modified: Feb 10, 2017 at 5:08 PM by Mario. Edit Reason: deleted

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This post was last modified: Feb 10, 2017 at 5:08 PM by Mario. Edit Reason: deleted

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was just talking to Kazaam about how the biggest thing that Offended me as an Internet Atheist was when people called Science a religion. hilarious how I'd be arguing with people who I think are fundamentally wrong about the universe and existence itself but they cross the line when they call Science a Religion. i don't think you can really consider yourself a fan of science if you aren't open to different ways of thinking- you're practically in favor of ushering in a new dark age

i think words like religion/framework/ideology/methodology are more or less interchangeable (they're all just ways to (re)structure power) and we just simply attach different connotations to them. but it's interesting to look at science from all of these angles so that we can learn what it actually is and what it definitely isn't.

don't worry spritey; i can't wait for the day that i don't have to talk about white supremacy on MW

This post was last modified: Oct 4, 2016 at 1:07 AM by kaZaam.

was just talking to Kazaam about how the biggest thing that Offended me as an Internet Atheist was when people called Science a religion. hilarious how I'd be arguing with people who I think are fundamentally wrong about the universe and existence itself but they cross the line when they call Science a Religion. i don't think you can really consider yourself a fan of science if you aren't open to different ways of thinking- you're practically in favor of ushering in a new dark age

& i kinda touched on how this could be because Scientism (or whatever lol. i mean this memetic obsession w science) sort of likes to deny the emotional (dare i say spiritual :OOOO) aspects of human existence as meaningless and irrelevant to the External world (even though the Internal/External apparently come from the same source and so arent really distinguishable outside of concepts.) orion touched on this too and i thinks its an intredasting tangent

This post was last modified: Oct 4, 2016 at 1:13 AM by kaZaam.

i think a lot of the 'it's not a religion' insecurity comes from some kind of deep-seeded acknowledgement that this science obsession really is just an extension of faith fronting as intelligence. it's like they want to have this weird fake credibility as Almost Scientists just for going with it.